breaking news. earnings, worries about china, the asia region more broadly, bill, are bringing down stocks today. welcome to "the closing bell." i'm kelly evans. >> i'm bill griffith. i'm in the camp, though, that says this market was just looking for a reason to sell off. yes, you can be worried about a manufacturing report out of china overnight. yes, you can worry about the economic data today. some of the earnings that have come out have not exactly impressed. but this market has been on soft sand for the last few weeks anyway, and i think that's one of the reasons we're seeing this selloff today. >> at least the selloff is

consistent. we've been talking about dive e diverging indexes for the last couple sessions. it's pretty clear whether you're looking at the dow jones industrial average, which is off about 187 points, off the lows of about 220, still down better than 1%. same goes for the s&p 500 today. the broad market index telling you the same story. very few components today, bill, in the green. >> yeah, the dow was down 233 at the low of the session. we're told that there really is no pressure either way, to the buy or sell side, as we head toward the close. let's talk about all these red arrows today. joining us in our "closing bell" exchange, amy wu, heather hughes, jim lowell, jim o'shaunnesy, and our own rick santelli standing by in chicago. heather, you've been one of our resident skeptics about this market. you must be -- i don't want to say you're pleased about the selloff, but at least it brings

you back to a level closer to where you might want to get back in. >> hi, bill. yes, i think there's been all this built-up talk about we haven't had some sort of a correction as defined as a 10% or more pullback in the markets in over a year now. a lot of advisers we're working with have been kind of sitting on the sidelines waiting for the markets to pull back. third day in a row that we may potentially close in the red. a down day again. but that's okay. we're not seeing too much panic. again, a lot of people, advisers in january, rebalance. you might see that continue into next week. people are sitting on their hands to see how this plays out. but things are okay. this is healthy. >> amy, i wonder about the volatility. the vix up about a point and a half. i think the biggest increase in a couple months. how much do you make out of that? >> hey, guys. well, you know, from my point of view, this is healthy. this is something we needed. we've been talking about volatility suppression for so

long because of the bernanke put. as tapering rolls off, we realize we're macro and geopolitical risks out there. it's good we're seeing that reflected. one point i would make is it's by no means panic. we see the vix going up. we see vix calls, but it's by no means panic in the options market. it's really more just a healthy correction. >> and i think you agree, jim, don't you? >> i do. i hate to be in agreement with everyone on the panel because generally when we're all agreeing, that means things are going the other way around. but i do agree. i think that i've talked to innumerable investors who tell me they're just waiting for that correction, you know, that 5% to 10% correction. i think we're providing them with such a correction right now. so let's watch it and see if they step in and buy like they've always told us they were going to do. >> jim lowell, if we were to try to figure out what the market is telling us here and not just look past it, is this a story

about geopolitical concerns between china and japan, for example? is it about weakness or change in policy in some of those overseas markets? is it about emerging market weakness or europe or about the u.s.? what do you think the message is here? >> well, i think we always try to invent whatever happens to be going on when the markets are going down and hit on that as the reason, right, that the market is going down. i think that generally speaking, we always have events that could adversely affect the market. sometimes they happen when the market is going straight up. our position is this is probably earnings related, earnings is probably going to come in a little softer than many people thought. and the market anticipates these things and provides bargains for people who are diligent and willing to go in and buy. >> what do you think, jim lowell? >> so i think jim's probably right, but the reality on the ground is that we're not seeing any major catalyst for selling nor as you pointed out at the

top a real catalyst for buying. this is sort of a soft sand marketplace as we stand today. when we look overseas in particular, at established markets in europe, and we see car sales beginning to turn around in spain, we see a good post-bailout bond auction from ireland, germany's manufacturing ticking up. we see retail sales picking up in the u.k. we see eurozone housing prices hit a two-year high. we are seeing slow growth, not no growth, recovery in europe. and we know that over the last four years we were able to make more than 130% returns on slow growth, not no growth, year. so we like fear, uncertainty, and days when the market sells off, not on fundamental, but on rumors and assumptions. we think this is still a market to take advantage of whenever it does sell off. i would also point out that this point loss today may feel a little unnerving, but percentage-wise, it's just a drop in the bucket. >> rick santelli, we don't have a selloff. it's not as if stocks are

consolidating or selling off in a vacuum. we also have gold increasing $25 today. we also have the ten year, which started the year at 3%, now decisively below 2.8%, and it's been a big mover just in the past week. >> considering we're spanish yields, we should be at like 1.8%. i disagree with everybody today. so there you go, bill. you know what? here's what i don't understand. if we're making excuses about the stock market, today's not the excuse. the excuse has been making everything fit the upside of stocks in this kind of juiced environment. to me, the reason people buy dips on markets going up are because they have confidence in the underlying fundamentals. so the reprieve is just a great point to get in. i think that if we're all very objective, what's going on in china's pmi is not something to paper over. probably half the stuff they report isn't accurate. so to see a sub-50 number knowing that, to see some of the

issues on their trust banks, to know how many nonperforming loans they have, i think this could be something to pay attention to. in terms of treasury yields, if we close here, it'll be the lowest yield close since the 29th of november for the ten year. more important, the foreign exchange markets tell us a lot. if you look at the dollar versus the yen, it's down about 1.25%. if you look at the euro-yen, it's down less than one-fifth of 1%. it's not a story about the dollar-yen or the trade. it's a story about the euro and their positive pmi contrasting with china and what potentially could be the beginning of a glimpse in what's really under their economy and what i would say it is is a lot of sand. so if you're looking to make glass, head to china. >> all right. so one of the global growth engines may be starting to teeter at this point. heather, what were you going to say? >> definitely we are all globally interconnected at the end of the day. that's rick's point. we should keep an eye on china as the big elephant in the room,

right? they have, a, what, $9 trillion economy, the second largest in the world behind the u.s. we don't even know if we can trust the data, and there may be fraud in some of these numbers, which that's a different story. but until we get the real story of what's going on around the world globally, it's something to keep an eye on. again, in the u.s. markets domestically, it's okay. a selloff is completely -- it's okay for the time being. we're just sitting on our hands. let's wait until we get more clarity over the next few days before we panic. >> amy, where does this leave a federal reserve that has just embarked on a tapering program that most people in the market expect to increase by another $10 billion in about a week here at their next meeting? meanwhile, the unemployment rate falling for reasons that may not be all that encouraging. again, some of the market activity today in that ten year suggesting maybe there's some weakness here underneath the veneer of better economic fundamentals. >> yeah, well, kelly, i think a lot of people, while they know

about the tapering beginning, they're really focused on rates. so if next week we really get some sort of evidence that it's also going to increase in rate of tapering outside of just it happening, i think that'll cause more volatility. one thing i want to say to santelli's point, which is if you look to the options market, the biggest fears, the biggest places you're seeing protection being put on are emerging markets. you still don't see that in the u.s. at all. it's a meaningful divergence. >> jim, to rick's point, are we being too complacent about this selloff? should we be todayi ipaying atto what the markets are saying, or have we been lulled by the big gains in the last year? >> i think the big gains definitely got people to be a little miranda ru little more mellow in their interpretations of the market going down. we still think there are huge values overseas, particularly in financially strong companies that pay high dividends. you know, british petroleum,

deutsch telecom. these are call companies with very strong balance sheets, dividend yields above 4%. we have to remember it's truly a global economy and there are opportunities all around the globe. so we shouldn't focus just on our market, but we should look abroad to see what we can find that's very, very cheap and yet paying very well on the dividend side. >> all right. got to go at this point, gang. thank you for an intelligent conversation on this mystifying selloff today. appreciate it. >> a lot of components in the red. but who are the biggest losers in today's market? let's get to dom chu. >> thanks, kelly. we begin with herbalife, which slid on news that massachusetts senator ed markey was seeking information on the company's businesses practices. they responded by telling cnbc it looked forward to addressing senator markey's concerns. then there's noble, one of the big losers today after the offshore drillers said that rig utilization was expected to drop

this year. check out transocean and diamond offshores as well. they fell in sympathy with that noble report. a rough day for lockheed martin as well. it reports a 14% drop in fourth quarter profits as defense contractor sales shrunk amid budget cutbacks. and ongoing problems with the f-35 joint strike fighters could delay marine corps plans to deploy that particular plane. also, chinese stocks all losing ground after an s.e.c. judge said that the big four accounting firms should be barred from working for any u.s. listed chinese companies for at least six months. kelly, bill, back over to you. >> all right, dom. thanks very much. show us a chart of apple. e juwe'r getting word that karl icon has taken to twitter once again. this has been one of the few bright spots in the market today. >> he said he added another $500 million to that position for a total of about $3.6 billion. shares are up almost 1%.

>> he's long said it's undervalued and would love to see them initiate that $150 billion buyback that he's been calling for. so carl icon continues to load up on apple, that he's been doing for several months now. that stock up about $4 at this hour on an otherwise big down day. another story we'll be keeping an eye on here. >> sure. not doing much to change the taper more broadly. we head to the close with about 45 minutes left. the dow is off 1.16%. the s&p 500, same thing, better than 1%, sitting at 1825. >> we're not finished. much more on the selloff. we have famed investor dennis gartman joining us to weigh in coming up. >> and if earnings are the culprit for today's downside move, you need to stay tuned because we have a couple biggies out in less than an hour, microsoft and starbucks reporting their earnings after the bell. analysis and reaction to those figures. >> also, remember this restaurant chain?

>> steak and ale, welcome back to the old country inn. >> kelly was just telling me she remembers. >> i've never seen that. >> steak and ale brewing up a come back. the man behind it has already resurrected another name from the past, bennigan's. we'll talk to him about bringing back a brand from the past. you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you: is your tv powered by coal? natural gas? nuclear? or renewables like solar... and wind? let's find out. this is where america's electricity comes from. a diversity of energy sources helps ensure the electricity we need is reliable. take the energy quiz. energy lives here.

markets down, if you're just joining us. it has been a down day all day today. started overnight after weakening data out of china. it just continued today. a cascade of information coming our way that the markets have interpreted as negative. the dow down almost 200 points now. >> i think those days are more telling than some days we have big events and there's a big reaction. som >> so a rough day on wall street. more details on the data breach at neiman marcus. courtney reagan has the latest. >> that's right. good afternoon, bill.

earlier this month, neiman marcus confirmed it, too, was the victim of a data breach but e vealed little other information at the time. now they say the hackers installed malware on the store's payment systems that attempted to collect or scrape payment card data from july 16th, 2013, to october 30th, 2013. so during those months, approximately 1.1 million customer payment cards could have been potentially visible to the malware. the retailer says visa, mastercard, and discover say approximately 2400 cards that were used at neiman marcus' full line and last call stores have been used fraudulently. however, social security numbers or birth dates haven't been compromised. p.i.n. numbers were never at risk because they don't use p.i.n. pads. while the data breach occurred between july 16th and october 30th, the company is notifying all customers that it has contact information for who shopped during all of 2013.

and like target, also offering free credit monitoring it and i.d. theft protection for a year. bill? >> all right, courtney. thank you very much. today's market, some faded brands that died during the past might be resurrected. remember, for example, steak and ale. once a popular chain restaurant. it's now set for a comeback after going bankrupt five years ago. the man behind the plan already responsible for reviving another popular chain, namely bennigan's, which also went bankrupt during tougher times. so why now for steak and ale? >> well, let's ask the man behind it all, president and ceo of bennigan's. paul, welcome. >> thank you, bill and kelly. pleasure to be on the show. >> my first question when i see what you've done with the turnaround stories here is if there isn't a theory that you can almost close something and

then use the nostalgia effect to bring it back in a later, perhaps more relevant, iteration. >> exactly. >> yeah, i mean, you make a good point. what i found with the bennigan's experience is that great brands and great companies are coupled with legendary restaurant experiences are tremendously resilient. and there's a pent-up demand out there within the entire united states, and for that matter around the world, for these iconic brands. i saw that was very true with bennigan's. since we own the sister company to that, steak and ale, there was a tremendous outflow of demand to please bring the brand back. in fact, we started a facebook page just to try to gauge whether it's just a couple people or a lot. we have almost 70,000 people that are already clamoring for the steak and ale. that prompted me a couple years ago to start with the whole process of how to reintroduce steak and ale in the 21st century. we have a new prototype now. we have a new franchise model

now. we have all the engineering valued so that we have with a menu and with a pro forma to reintroduce. we have two locations we're looking at right now, one being in the panhandle in florida and panama city with an existing bennigan's franchisee. and a corporate location here in the dallas area. >> i've said this before. i'm always fascinated by the impact or the connection that a brand name has on the emotions of consumers. i grew up a dodger fan in los angeles, for example. today's dodgers, there's not a single player on that team that i rooted for, you know, all those many years ago, but yet i still root for that franchise because i had the connection. you're going to come out with a new look, a new menu and everything. the only thing that's the same is the name on that door, and people will somehow connect with that, won't they? >> yeah, i mean, the emotional connection you bring up is part an parcel of the driving force

for this. and like what we did with bennigan's, we're going to do with steak and ale, in terms of paying respect to that heritage. it was started by an iconic man in the industry known as norm brinker. that was almost 48 years ago that steak and ale was created. i cannot believe how strong that emotional connection is, and the stories we've heard basically around the world about how their families join going to steak and ale after church or they met their first boyfriend or that was their first job. i was talking to jim sullivan, who's going to be a keynote at our conference next month, and -- who's an industry guru, and he has a cleaver that he got because he was working at steak and ale all those many years ago. so the nostalgia and the emotional connection runs deep. and it would be -- >> paul, just if i could real -- >> -- bring back those brands to the folks that want it. >> i just want to ask this

ultimately about how you can make this restaurant succeed when it failed in the past. operationally, is this about the franchise model? how are you stepping on expenses? what's the difference this time around, briefly, if you could? >> well, it's the 21st century version of it. it's going to be more chef infused with regard to the different offerings on the menu. the flavor profiles will be a little bit more spicy. of course, the ale piece, i think, you know, beer has become so much more en vogue today. we're going to really focus on that, but really delivering portions and quality for a great price point and with news like we heard today from the stock market, people really need a great kensington club steak from steak and ale in order to weather the storm that we're presently going through. >> or a stiff drink. thank you, paul. >> i could go for that right now. thanks, paul. >> i'll take you there myself. >> you got it. see you later. >> thank you. >> let's get some more on carl

icohn increasing his stake in apple. >> you got the tweets. here's the letter now that carl has sent to apple shareholders in this multipage letter. he details all kinds of details, but we want to pick out a couple highlights for you. first of all, he says, given apple's massive net cash position and robust earnings generation, apple is perhaps the most overcapitalized company in corporate history. he also says that this share purchase authorization that currently exists with apple can and should be larger and effectuating that for all the benefit of the company's shareholders is the sole intention of their proposal. they believe by choosing not to increase the size of the repurchase program, the companies is performing a great disservice to the owners. over the past two week, they say they've purchaspurchased. here's the interesting part. he makes his case in one good line. he says, with the s&p 500's

valuation, if apple was valued at exactly the same multiple that the market was valued overall, he believes apple would be an $840 stock. that's an increase of 52% over current market levels, one of the reasons you see apple up to session highs in today's session. back over to you. >> carl icahn doing the math. thank you, dom. about 35 minutes left in the trading session. the dow, nasdaq, s&p all down about a percent right now. >> tough day. drug makers have been hunting around for the next blockbuster class of drugs. up next, we'll find out about cancer treatment 2.0. find out what that means and which stocks could profit the most. >> and here's a little factoid. did you know that nfl commissioner roger goodell made about $30 million last season? well, now an oakland raiders cheerleader is suing the oakland raiders because her salary for the entire season, $1200.

which brings us to our friend and frequent "closing bell" contributor carol roth. she wrote in a cnbc.com piece that income inequality is not a problem. john fort disagrees. the two have been engaged in a twitter throwdown all day, so later, that debate will move from twitter to television right here on "closing bell." >> and we do want your take on whether income inequality is a problem. your best tweets on this subject will be revealed later. @cnbcclosingbell is the way to reach us. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses.

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welcome back. a tough day for the market. >> but we were just saying, there may be something there. we've been getting bombarded by everybody saying how much they love steak and ale. we were down 233. all the major averages finally in lock step today. >> and it's consistent with what we're seeing outside of the equities space as well. the ten year really rallying today. a lot of people are buying bonds. gold is up $25. one of its biggest moves in a couple months. volatility is up. there's a consistent theme. the question s what is it telling us how much to make of one day's moves? >> first, the pharmaceuticals industry may have found its next blockbuster group of drugs. could be welcomed news in the fight against cancer. morgan brennan has details. >> thanks, bill. immuno oncology, that's the buzz

word. that buzz could get a lot louder as new drugs start coming to market. immuno oncology is basically cancer treatments 2.0. we're talking about a new class of therapies that use your own immune system to target cancer cells. coupled with more traditional therapies, they could help prevent relapses. analysts are basically calling this a paradigm shift in the way we treat cancer. but we're still very, very early stages for these drugs. a number of companies involved including merck. of course, the biggest player, bristol-myers squibb. it shed its joint diabetes venture last month to focus on it. one of the few drugs already on the market. a promising lung cancer drug in late-stage testing. investors keeping an eye on that. tomorrow the company reports earnings before the bell. analysts saying immuno oncology will not be a big piece of those

numbers, but it will be a buzz word when looking for forward guidance in 2014. back to you guys. >> all right, morgan. thanks. stay with us if you would. what do these new drugs mean for bristol-myers squibb and other biotech companies? shamus, look, amid all of this in the excitement, how much of this is priced into shares of a bristol-myers squibb already? >> well, frankly, we saw bristol-myers squibb go up about 65% last year. the performance was pretty staggering. they added enormous amount of market cap. but, you know, being the first in the space, bristol-myers squibb does have a really significant potential advantage, particularly given the fact that they could file their product in lung cancer this year, which is actually the largest potential space in cancer among the areas that are being targeted at this

point. so i actually don't think, given the fact we're on the cusp of filing, and potentially on the cusp of some interesting data for bristol-myers squibb's combination of two drugs that are called check point inhibitors in this space. we actually think there's more room to go in the stock from here. our price target is in the low 60s range. >> and it's at $53 today. is this one of those situations, though, where we're talking about therapies that won't be available for a number of years? i mean, how far down the road are we talking here? >> yeah, so it's going to depend on the -- it'll depend on the space. merck actually, and bristol, could have a pd-1 inhibitor on market this year, but it would be in different tumors. so in lung cancer you would actually have bristol potentially reaching the market this year. then also it's likely that merck's drug will reach the market in melanoma this year as well. so, you know, you're on the cusp of two drugs actually reaching

the market. multiple other tumors will actually potentially make it to market in the years to come as well as other combination therapies. so those are areas that are being studied right now, but we are certainly on the cusp of the early stages of the evolution. >> you know, morgan, merck, if i'm correct, was one of the outperformers. so it does seem as though there's a lot of potential here for these companies. >> that's right. >> absolutely. >> oh, go ahead. >> no, sorry. i think that question was for morgan. >> go ahead, morgan. >> and shamus, i've been trying to get you on the horn to talk about this for the last two days. good to see you. anyway, yes, one of the things i've been hearing from analysts, merck and bristol-myers really neck and neck with the first big round of drugs. one of the things that i've been hearing is the fact that it already has it on the market. nothing else like that right now. i suspect we're going to be seeing a lot more talk about immuno oncology. also a lot of talk of very small

biotech companies. a lot of venture capital flowing into new biotechs focusing on immuno oncology. >> well, any family affected by cancer has their fingers crossed on this one. >> thank you. the dow is still off big today, down 186 points. we're seeing declines of about 19 across the s&p 500. 34 points off the nasdaq, which is at 4208. >> and when the market feels like this, many people ask themselves, should i get out, is it time to get back in? what do you do at this point? is that a smart move, or would it be a costly mistake? dennis gartman will weigh in, a veteran of this market. >> also ahead, we know trash talking is big in sports. what about corporate america? netflix ceo reed hastings, does he herald a new era? >> i guess the ceo of hbo doesn't mind sharing his account

information. >> he is not alone taking a shot at competitors. trash talking seems like it's becoming a little more common on wall street these days. is that good or bad for ceos and their companies? we'll discuss that later on "the closing bell." open to innovation. open to ambition. open to bold ideas. that's why new york has a new plan -- dozens of tax free zones all across the state. move here, expand here, or start a new business here and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and grows more businesses... we're open to it. start a tax-free business at startup-ny.com.

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a selloff today, and our bob posani and others have been ticking off a litany of reasons for this selloff, starting overnight with that manufacturing report out of china, just moving its way into the united states with earnings, with economic data out today. all kinds of reasons for minus signs in the equity market today. >> with us to that point is dennis gartman and our own bob posani. want to get their thoughts on this market. dennis, first to you. it feels like the kind of market where the selloff happens before people come up with a reason for it, and the reasons will only be clear in a week or so. >> well, that's the way it almost always is in all markets, kelly. we find out the news later. but what bothered me this morning when i was writing my commentary was the divergence that we had seen over the course of the past several days, the dow refused to make new highs. the other broad indices were -- and one of the things i watch are for those sorts of

divergences. for the first time in a while, i've been very bullish on stocks. this morning i said, you know what, probably not a bad idea to make couple calls, buy some derivatives to protect yourself on the downside. i think this might get a little ugly for a couple days. maybe a couple weeks. >> for the record, art has been walking the floor today pounding the table euphemistically about this selloff as well, bob. >> it's a weird divergence, dennis. it's a big cap correction we've been seeing throughout the year. the dow is down 2.6% so far this year. the transports are up 2%. the russell 2000 is up. the midcap index is up. the nasdaq is up. it's a little strange. >> but that's the divergence you're talking about, isn't it, dennis? >> it's very bizarre. normally when you get a divergence such as this, it's because the dow makes new highs and the other broad indices don't. this is a very strange one.

nonetheless, it is a divergence that we have to pay some attention to. they should all be running in tandem. there should be sop convergence. instead, there has been divergence. but it's an unusual bit. i found it fascinating. >> but it tellins me it's the b caps having problems. transports, largely domestic names, are not. small caps, largely domestic, are not. midcaps, largely domestic, are not. the nasdaq is still largely tech stocks. a lot of them are domestic. there's a theme here, dennis. it's international. >> also, some of the safe havens are benefitting right now. dollar and gold are both doing pretty well. what do you make of that? >> well, gold was interesting today because early this morning it was actually down, but then there was the rumor that the indians were going to do away with their tax they had there. what do you call it? tariff for lack of a better term. they'd raised it four times over the past year, stopping the

imports of gold. there was a rumor they were going to rescind that. that rumor has been denied. nonetheless, that was enough to spark the gold market on want upside. bonds took off at the same time. what you have is people running for cover for the first time in a long while. >> and dennis, what about china? if this is more than just some skittishness and there really is something to either the slowing economy, testing a default potentially, to sort of test the strength of their financial markets. how important are those developments for investors here in the u.s. as well? >> well, kelly, i found it amusing this morning that everybody was wailing and gnashing their teeth over the fact that the purchasing managers index had fallen, what, 0.3%. the fact you have the pmi under 50 is important. i've told people for years, watch the pmi. pay very little attention to it when it moves less than 1%. when it does go under 50, do pay attention then.

it has done that in china. are things slowing in china? almost certainly. is gdp growth still going to be 5%, 6%, or 7%? it's going to be at least that strong. not as strong as we'd like to have it. certainly making it difficult for the economies down in australia and new zealand. >> that's for sure. >> the chinese economic numbers have been weak for several weeks in a row. this was kind of the final straw. if you look at the chinese market, you shouldn't be surprised. there's a slow descent for years. >> wasn't it interesting in the past two days that the shanghai stock market was actually quite strong ahead of the pmi index. we'll see how the shanghai does tonight. wouldn't it be interesting if it opened higher? i doubt it shall, but it will be interesting to watch. >> we'll do that. >> we're going to stay up late. >> kelly will be up waiting for shanghai to open. >> that's right. thank you. >> i'll be up writing. >> we'll skype. thanks, bob.

>> guys, thanks. >> about 20 minutes left to go into the close. the dow pretty much sitting this hour at a decline of 183 points. 1.1% or so. again, it extends across to the s&p, which is off 18. >> we have more on today's big selloff. we'll get to the close here. if it gets worse in the final minutes, that's often viewed as a bad sign. so stay tuned. after the bell, income inequality is reportedly the president's main focus for next week's state of the union address. but there is a twitter fight going on between two cnbc folks about if income inequality is even a problem. it's carol roth versus john fort. that's coming up. pay attention to it later on "the closing bell."

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so a sea of red on wall street today, but the bulls are hoping that a pair of big after-the-bell earnings can turn things around. >> we have a preview of what you can expect from microsoft and starbucks. >> the street is expecting the software giant will earn about 68 cents a share on revenues of about $23.7 billion. overshadowing the report, investors will be looking for any sign that the company has made in terms of progress in names a possible new ceo.

so microsoft a focus there. as for starbucks, analysts are forecasting 69 cents per share on revenues of $4.3 billion in its first quarter. sales growth at its brick and mortar stores will be a major focus of the report in the wake of growing online shopping trends. intuitive surgical is expected to earn $3.83 on sales of $558 million in its fourth quarter. the company said its sales would come in around $576 million. that's a 5% decline from the same time last year. finally, juniper networks expected to have revenues of about $2.22 billion. that stock is up some 35% over the past three months. so some possible movers in today's after market. back to you. >> all right. thank you. we'll have those numbers coming up in a little bit. meantime, we're coming back a little bit. dow was down 233 points. we don't want to get too excited

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coming up on the ten-minute mark here with a selloff today. we're coming off the lows. art just telling me that they flipped to the buy side on the market on close orders, but only slightly here as we head toward the closing bell. peter anderson joining me right now. this is one of those days where we're really trying to discern the message of the market with this selloff. what's it telling you? >> well, first off, you know, everybody's just getting their 401(k) plans back, the reports. i think people are really happy coming into this. so what i'm thinking is they're going to just shake this one off, bill. >> you think so? you know, we were talking at the top of the hour about whether we're becoming complacent about

this. rick was making the point maybe we should be paying attention to this selloff and the economic data coming out of china. maybe there is an underlying weakness we're ignoring right now. >> could be. this whole thing about a watch kettle never boils. we're always concerned about this, it's a good thing. i'm not saying not to be concerned. i think what happens is when you stop being concerned, that's when things get out of kilter. but there's so many offous worrying about this. you know, we've talked ad nauseam last year about these kinds of things, these one-day dips. then think come screaming back. the china data is one bit of about 50 points that you have to look at every day. >> i don't want to make too much out of the first 15 trading days of the year, but so far they haven't come back for the most part on these dips. we're down 2.6% this year on the dow so far. >> i love this because, you know, what you can do is you can

make that argument and then just look back at history. we spend a lot of time looking back at track records, seeing how things went. the history shows that if you stayed out of the market, if you say to yourself right now, i'm not going to be in equities because of just what you said, history shows that you tend to lose and it's better to stay fully invested. it's painful sometimes. >> so in other words, people standing on the sidelines waiting for that proverbial 10% correction, and then they get it and say, well, there must be a reason the market is going down, i'm not going to step in. >> it's like jumping into a jump rope. you have some investors that have been waiting for years to jump in. others like myself and most of our clients that have said, okay, we're going to take your advice, leg in at our comfort. but i think it's really dangerous. you know, one of the things you can is if you are in cash, this is one way you can rationalize that. think of it as a free call option on exercising your discretion over buying stocks. the price won't be a strike price. it'll be a floating price. but at least you have that cash

on hand. i'm not saying if you're uncomfortable, force yourself in to invest. stay in cash, but realize that cash is ready to pull the trigger. >> good to see you on the floor today. peter anderson from congress asset management. we'll be back with the countdown. getting ready for earnings moments away. numbers from microsoft and starbucks. we'll have the numbers, the instant analysis, and that all-important market reaction coming up. can they turn this around for socks as we head into the friday trading session? we'll find out coming up. after that, the all-important market close. stay with us. (vo) you are a business pro. seeker of the sublime. you can separate runway ridiculousness... from fashion that flies off the shelves. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. (natalie) ooooh, i like your style.

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get live squawks right in your trading platform with think or swim from td ameritrade. welcome back. about four minutes left here. this is the dow today. this will be the third session in a row with a down day. the selling, though, began overnight in the futures markets after that growth number from -- the manufacturing number from china was less than expected. it started this cascade lower. we were down 233 at the low of the session. down 176 points now. one stock we're keeping an eye on right now is apple after carl icahn revealed within this last hour he'd bought another $500 million worth of apple stock. that stock is higher on an

otherwise down day today. also, earnings coming up. these could set the tone for tomorrow. microsoft, we're looking for profits of 68 cents on $23.68 billion. you can see that stock is also higher, interestingly. so is starbucks. they're looking for profits of 69 cents on $4.29 billion. peter costa, what do you make of this selloff today? >> you know, you had an impetus to start. i think we were right for something like this. i don't see it being a significant long-term issue. if you start seeing a much higher run rated as far as volumes, it's a very good possibility there will be some sort of corrective action. i think our run rate today will probably be 820. >> 829 million shares. >> a little above average. not significant. if you start seeing something without a major event and it

being over a billion shares and you see a move like this, then it's something you want to take a look at. >> isn't market psychology interesting? we seed the market go higher and higher. everybody'ling for a correction of some kind, which they say would be normal and welcome and all those thing. then when we see a move like this, we all start scratching our heads. >> well, it's the pain no one wants to suffer. it's like, you have a tooth ache and you need to get it drilled. this is a kind of pain you have to suffer through. a long-term bull market is going to see corrective actions. there are going to be corrective phases. i'm not scratching my head. i was hoping we'd see this a couple more times. >> what are you making of earnings right now? some of the high-profile companies, the stocks have not performed well after they've reported. >> no, and what it shows is there's a skittishness of investors. if they don't see all three numbers that they want to see come in, they hit it hard. >> meaning? >> meaning revenue, earnings, and then the earnings per share.

if it doesn't come in right where they want it, they hurt it badly. we saw what happened with ibm. >> goldman sachs, verizon. a whole group of stocks. >> they all had great moves. a lot are trading off their 52-week highs. there's a lot less air at the top as there is at the bottom. so you can see a lot of move very quickly. a little bit of a miss. doesn't mean that their business model is wrong. just means they missed. >> are you buying this down move yet? >> not yet. i'd still like to see another 5%. we still have some room to go. if you look at the market down 2% today, i think if you get maybe 3.5, 4% more, then there's a buying opportunity. i'd like to be involved. >> okay. good to see you. peter costa, empire execution.

the dow is off itself l low in session. now stay tuned for what could be some market-moving earnings reports from microsoft and starbucks. that's coming up on the second hour of "the closing bell" with kelly evans and an all-star panel today coming up. see you tomorrow, kelly. thank you, bill. welcome to "the closing bell" on a tough day for markets. i'm kelly evans. here's how we're finishing the session. take a look across the major indexes, which are seeing one of their worst sessions in a couple months. at least for the dow jones industrial average, which looks like it will finish certainly off the lows of the day but still down 172 points or just more than 1%, clinging on to that 16,200 level for dear life. the nasdaq shedding 24 point, little more than half a percent. the s&p 500 off 16. wonder if it's significant. we'll keep a close eye there. earnings any moment from

microsoft and starbucks. there's a lot to talk about as we work through what happened. let's get straight to it with today's "closing bell" panel. joining me now, our own john fort and mary thompson, cnbc contributors zachary carabell, and more on today's selloff, "fast money" contributor brian kelly. first to you. why is this market so weak? >> well, it started with china last night, which it's a little concerning or a little confusing because china has been an issue for a couple weeks now. i think it was the pmi in china that got people a bit skittish. then you came into this morning, some of the earnings here in the u.s. haven't been better than expected. so here we are down 1% today. i think we probably have more room to go. it's not a one-day event. and we'll see. at the end of this month, if china decides to let this one particular wmp fail, then we could have some serious problems. >> just so people know what we're talking about, there's been some talk in the market about whether china sort of tests markets by allowing a

default to happen. but it does kind of feel like none of these reasons that are being cited as serious explains the broad-based nature of the move today, which wasn't just in stocks. >> we bay chris just got back to break even, kelly, with the rallies that we've seen recently. it brought us back to break even on the year or pretty close. not to the highs of last year, but that far away from them. it doesn't seem like people really wanted to commit a lot of capital at that level. i agree with everything peter costa and the rest of the folks have said in your prior hour, that basically people would like to see much more of a pull back. >> they always say that until it happens. >> so if you don't get that pull back, then people will have to pour back in at this level just as they did last year. >> zachary? >> i guess it's like treading ice water. there are a lot of people who looked at what went on last year and did not actively participate in it and are then looking for that perfect moment.

like, wow, i messed everything that happened in 2013. i have a lot of cash. what do i do with it? so a lot of what's been going on in the past three weeks is i think there are still a lot of people waiting for that kind of moment. it's not like these are really intensely active markets. there's a lot of professional activity. there's a lot of trading activity. there's not a lot of investing activity. >> mary, maybe it's because everyone is buying bonds. >> certainly looked like it today. behind the china numbers, there was kind of a broad ripple effect that we saw in the emerging markets. the current cies there taking a big hit. could be setting us up for a big down day on friday. we could see additional weakness going into the weekend. that's something to watch. interesting to note, though, despite the big decline in the industrials, the transports still finished higher. >> and by the way, airlines have

been so strong this year in spite of the weather and everything else that's been going on here. obviously microsoft shares are moving to the up side. we'll get the full earnings report to you in just a couple of moments. speaking of things that people are buying today, gold. we got to talk about that too, brian. >> yeah, actually today i came in short gold and turned around and went long gold. a couple things going on. india and china account for about half of the gold demand in the world. if china is having economic problems and india decides we can buy more gold, that's going to be positive for gold. and gold also gets that kick of a risk off, you go into gold just for safety. >> all right, guys. stick around. microsoft is out with their earnings. josh? >> yeah, kelly. so the street was looking for 68

cents on $23.7 billion. microsoft reports 78 cents on $24.5 billion. remember, microsoft now reporting under these two main groups. so commercial revenue up 10% to $12.7 billion. they're saying commercial cloud revenue more than doubled. on the other side, device and consumer revenue up 13%. windows revenue microsoft received from pc makers down 3%. >> thank you, joshua. quick reaction from david peel. >> this is definitely better than expectations. the stock is very cheap. looks like the commercial business has been good and is even getting better. the consumer business, which is what everyone digs them on, has actually looked like it is improving. pc sales on software was only down three.

all in all, it was good in all areas. we think it's undervalued just based as a commercial vendor. remember, their cloud revenue doubled. they're doing really, really well in what matters in the future. we think just the enterprise business is worth more than today's stock. >> john fort, what do you think? >> let me tick through a few things here that are great. as josh mentioned, windows oem licensing down 3%. that's basically the money that microsoft gets from third-party pc makers. you'd expect to see that down more in the 7% range, but they managed to do better than that. from surface, their own hardware, that revenue more than doubled. their advertising business looked good. cloud in particular i want to call out. commercial cloud was up. also, office 365 and some of the other commercial cloud stuff also up triple digits. that means that was more than

doubling also. people say that's the core of microsoft's future. if so, it's looking good. >> zachary? >> just to tie these threads together, and i'm sure we'll get to starbucks in a minute, but unless you're a professional trader and feel like you can figure out what's going on with gold in the world, i'd much rather be on the microsoft side of things. not necessarily the stock, but just on the side of the real economy. >> assuming microsoft is getting the innovation in technology right. >> hard to generate $24 billion of revenue in a quarter and be completely, you know, an exception to the rule of the global economic system. they're not a proxy for it, but they are deeply tethered to it. china, too. china may one day collapse, but until it does, we're in the continu continual, every 6 to 12 month, oh, my god, we're going to collapse. >> people say, well, if china's not doing as well as expected,

what are the follow-on effects? we're seeing currencies in south africa, argentina, turkey taking a dive. if those emerging markets continue acting up, that's where some of these companies are looking for growth. >> excellent point. david, final word to you on microsoft before we move on. >> i'd just like to point out microsoft does very little in china because of piracy. in some ways this is a great play if you're worried about china. they have a 3% dividend. it really looks like this is one of the few companies that's going to show revenue growth, driving earnings growth over the next year. >> all right. david, thank you so much for joining us with thoughts on that one. microsoft moving to the up side by almost 5% after hours. starbucks earnings also just hit the tape. sarah? >> i can give you the starbucks numbers. on the earnings per share, the bottom line here looks like 71 cents a share. revenues come in bang in line. here's the number everybody is

watching. that's comparable sales. u.s. comp store sales coming in light at 5% growth. remember, last quarter around we were looking at 8% growth. last year 9% growth. those have come down. howard schultz, the ceo, quoted in the earnings release saying that the holiday 2013 was really the first time he says you saw what he calls a seismic shift. traditional brick and mortar retailers experiencing pain with in-store traffic. that affects starbucks. you're not out at the mall, buyibuy ing your starbucks. also just want to bring you on the guidance. a little lower than expected as well. guidance, 56 cents a share for next quarter around. remember, this is their fiscal first quarter. for second quarter, a little weaker.

the stock has been bouncing around in the after hours. surprising perhaps it's not down lower, but it had been moving lower ahead of these earnings releases because there was some expectation that these comp store sales would come in light. >> and stay there if you would. dr. jay, your thoughts on this one. >> i'm impressed by it, even though the americas numbers not as impressive. operating margin, i think 19% versus 16% or something like that. that's what i'm getting here. 19.2% versus 16.6% year of year. that's phenomenal. so obviously howard schultz, they've tightened the belt and they're making sure that no extra money is laying around. they're doing a great job. >> yeah, because we've talked about this for a couple of weeks now. schultz himself in a memo to employees after the holiday indicated that they weren't immune from the lighter store traffic that they saw during the holiday season. i guess that's what you do. you have to turn around and step on expenses here. >> that's right.

he's someone who will do it immediately. he's not someone to sit and wait and see if things improve. he's very proactive. he has been telegraphing this is going to be a problem because of the lighter mall traffic. not a problem only for this quarter, he warned, but also for the future. if people are buying online as opposed to going to the mall, that's going to have a long-term impact on starbucks. they're already obviously making some adjustments as evidenced by those improved margins. >> what's interesting about them and interesting about a number of comparable companies is that -- and i haven't owned the stock -- is that they need to become and they've been trying this for years under schultz and doing a very good job is experience rather than a product. if you're a product, as products go online, we're in the in the world yet where coffee can be ordered online unless we get the amazon drones. we're not there yet.

>> i just want to give sarah the final word. they're looking for direction, up about a quarter of a percent. >> margins definitely a bright spot, just picking up on that comment. expanding 19%. there is talk about that in the release driven by cost cutting, nonroutine expenses. also keep in mind commodity costs have been very favorable with coffee costs at multiyear lows. that could be one of the factors helping. it will be interesting to hear on the call any comments on commodities, any comments on these comp store sales. in the last quarter cannily conference call, mr. schultz had somewhat of a confrontation with a morgan stanley analyst over this idea. so i'm sure he will be taking questions about that and what starbucks plans to do to combat that. and of course, international as well. asia hasn't been running as hot as starbucks was expecting. >> all right. great stuff. thank you so much. want to thank brian kelly as

well. catch much more of him on "fast money" coming up at 5:00. much more ahead on today's program. big mosses in the stock market. some pros say wall street needs days like this to stay strong over the long term because corrections are quote/unquote healthy. and later, forget about trash talk in the longer room. wait until you hear why this media ceo is slinging mud at a rival. did he cross the line? you know who he is. you're watching cnbc, first in business worldwide. mine was earned in korea in 1953.

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welcome back. we pick up with continuing coverage of today's major market selloff. want to bring in the director of o'neill securities here at the new york stock exchange. seema mody joining us from the nasdaq and rick santelli from the floor of the cme. kenny, your thoughts. >> i'm not so surprised. i'm not really sure people should be so surprised. the market has been struggling. no real reason to move higher. we keep hitting our head at 1850. they keep talking about how earnings are great. in fact, we've had some real big misses in the names that really mean something, right. some of the big industrial names

we've had some big misses. so in time, i think people are starting to really digest these earnings and what it really means. then you have the fed suggesting that maybe next week they're going to taper even more again and that clearly makes people nervous. then throw in that negative chinese data this morning, and it gives people a reason if they were on the fence, a reason to make money off the table. as you know, this wasn't panic selling by any stretch. it wasn't like people were throwing everything out in the kitchen sink. they weren't doing that at all. it was, you know -- the market was under pressure for sure, but it was not a panicky selloff at all. >> rick santelli, what do you make of it? >> i agree with warren buffett that you have to fall in love with your position every day. i'm still looking at a dow close to 16,200. i'm looking at interest rates instead of over 3%, they're approaching two and three quarters. for 2014, they've done nothing but go down when we know the big gun's in position for them to go up.

considering that, i think what's going on in china, hey, maybe that data point will disappear. it has huge global implications. when you look at our last labor report and listen to carney from the bank of england forsaking the threshold of 7% when the architects of what's propping these marks up do not want to live in the buildings they designed, what does that tell you? >> rick, it almost tell use they don't want to leave the building yet. he's saying, look, the 7% isn't relevant. >> and janet yellen and ben bernanke don't have confidence in their threshold here. the people most responsible for holding stocks up here certainly don't seem confidence at this point. >> i want to ask seema about this. netflix is almost behaving like a safe haven here. seems like everyone wants to pile into this name. >> there have definitely been stand-outs this quarter. netflix is at the top of that list. earnings, at the same time, seem

to be one of the catalysts for this market selling off. we typically see the average earnings growth rate rise as more companies report earnings. but this quarter, according to thompson reuters, the earnings growth rate has dropped from 7.5% to 7%. analysts say that's not a good sign. >> yeah, true. kenny, what were you doing to say? >> to rick's point, that's exactly the problem. they've been propping it up. they've been telling everything that the sun is shining. in fact, the sun is not shine. >> you mean central bankers or netflix? >> central bankers. netflix is a whole other issue. what kind of jobs -- where's the job creation and economic growth in netflix versus in ibm or caterpillar or deere or one of the big industrial names? that's always confusing to me. >> but you could argue while we had sort of an industrial revolution, now we have a technological revolution. you still have to build out fiber, broadband, you have to make the cap x investments in

those the way you have with railroads 100 years ago. >> people are sitting home on their couch watching tv. >> think of the skill set, kelly. >> what's the skill set? >> valid point. >> rick, you know you need as much, if not more, expertise to build out some of the technological pipes. >> absolutely. that's why we have a structural employment problem not unique to the united states. globalization has shined a huge spotlight that if your skill set is to stand at an assembly line or take orders for hamburgers, you're going to get lost in this global economy. >> and kelly, i think this debate between high growth tech and old tech that, continues to be a hot debate in technology. do you focus on these diversified, old tech names like ibm or intel, or do you invest in high-growth names like amazon and facebook? >> because look at microsoft. if you had just cast them aside as an old-line tech, well, the earnings today indicate they're

trying to keep up with what's happening in the cloud, on the enterprise side of things. >> absolutely. >> thanks, guys. great to see all of you. great discussion. we'll see what happens tomorrow and if microsoft can help lift spirits into tomorrow's session. top hedge fund manager weighing in next. david gerstenhaber speaks with me as he's seen 12% returns since 2000. he has picks that will be winners this year. keep it here for those names. opportunities aren't always obvious. sometimes they just drop in. cme group can help you navigate risks and capture opportunities. we enable you to reach global markets and drive forward with broader possibilities. cme group: how the world advances. aflac! got 'em.

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welcome back. another day of big movers in the after hours trading session. dom chu, what can you tell us? >> well, kelly, we have three of them for you. we're going to start off with microsoft. just out with their earnings report. the company earned 78 cents a share. that's ten cents better tan what wall street was expecting. sales also coming in better than expected, $24.5 billion. this as strong sales of its office software to offset other weak quarters for its flab flgs windows operating system. starbucks earnings coming in 2 cents above wall street consensus. sales a bit lower, though. comp sales came in at a didn disappointing 5%. also, mckesson up in the after hours, after it finally secured acquisition of its german peer through new agreements with other large shareholders. this new agreement gets them to a threshold where they could

complete a possible takeover. back over to you. >> all right, dom. thanks very much. well, for more on markets and with his best investment ideas for 2014, i'm joined by david gerstenhaber. started his career investing with julian robertson at tiger management. david's fund has seen annual returns of 12% since its start in 2000. not the easiest of periods for investing there. >> no. >> but how different the world looks today than it did in 2009. the rally is getting quite mature here in the u.s. where do you think we go from here, especially in light of today's selloff? >> well, i think that today's selloff was probably prompted by trouble in the emerging markets. the approximate cause of the selloff probably was a negative number out of china that disappointed people, but we're having trouble in turkey where the currency is coming under significant pressure. all the emerging markets, the currencies really are at risk right now that the fed's moved

into taper mode. that's probably a future that's going to persist with us during the course of the year. >> it's a little ironic though. if the weakness that's hurting the u.s. mark is now happening because the u.s.s is strong enough that the fed can taper, doesn't that logic seem kind of circular? in other words, will this come back to haunt the federal reserve policymakers, i guess? >> well, the question is how much weakness we're going to see in the market here. you know, our view is that this should be an up year for the market. we project gains of about 7.5% for the s&p this year, which is nothing like what we saw last year but nonetheless some combination of earnings growth, some buy backs, enough to push the s&p up a reasonable amount. the fed is not really in, you know, full offensive mode, if you will. the taper is still adding liquidity, but just at a lesser rate. so monetary conditions should remain very, very easy in the united states. >> and so in light of that, what are your best ideas for the year, in a year that sounds like it's going to be kind of midding

in terms of general equity performance? >> well, we like japan a lot. we think you have the monetary authorities on your side in a very big way in japan and the economic cycle on your side as well. we believe abenomics, as it's been dubbed, will succeed. we like the japanese stock market. we like a number of stocks out there that are beneficiaries of two different things. one, reflation of the domestic economy as property prices start to move up, as the banking system starts to make loans again. we like the large real estate companies. we also like things like daiwa securities, which is an easy way to get leverage into the stock market there. >> are you nervous at all about japan and the comments we just heard from shinzo abe speaking in davos where he's effectively likening the japan/china situation to the germany/british

situation. >> it's not something we should ignore. you know, if we come up with a list of things that are problems for the markets, potential problems for the marks this year, tension between japan and china is one of them. problems in china with the local government financing vehicles and the wealth management products, the trust products, there's another potential problem for the markets this year. deflation in europe, if that were to come to pass, is another potential problem for the markets this year. but unquestionably, if tensions between japan and china rise, that's going to be a problem for our market view. >> what about to bring it back here to the u.s. as well in a difficult geopolitical environment, there's obviously the risk around the sochi games, even that people talk about what are your favorite ways to play the u.s. markets this year? >> i think you want to go where there's growth. we've got an environment where there isn't a whole lot of growth, so that brings me back to technology and financials,

where in the technology sector, we're getting top-line growth in selected technology stocks. we like apple, we like google, we like priceline. things have gotten better in europe. that should aid them. we like the financials. i like things like morgan stanley, aig. i sort of like citibank, but the earnings were a bit of a disappointment. >> yes. >> but stocks of that ilk, i think, are likely to perform in this kind of an environment. >> any reason you'd leave goldman and jpmorgan out of that? >> i think jpmorgan is embattled at this point. we own a small bit of jpmorgan, not the sort of position we used to have. every time they wake up, they've got another challenge that they have confronting them. it really is rather daunting to be paying out fines on an join going basis. i'd rather be steering clear. >> final question, you mentioned tech. what about microsoft, now moving up about 4% after hours after a stronger earnings report

suggesting some traction in cloud. >> i think that's good news for the market. i think today was probably more of a hiccup than anything else. to see good earnings reports coming out of large companies is very, very helpful. >> david, it's been great to get your views on all of this, in a year that you think still could finish up despite the volatility we've seen. >> i think we're likely to see a lot more volatility. i think we'll see better gains in the first half of the year than the second half. the second half, the fed is going to be decidedly less helpful to the situation than they are in the first half of the year. but in the first half of the year, we still have ample liquidity in the system. the conditions to produce an end to a bull market don't really exist at present as we see things. >> david, thank you so much for coming by. really appreciate it. >> pleasure. thank you. >> we'll have more on markets just ahead. we'll see if things do turn around tomorrow. and we're also going to be

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welcome back. so you probably saw this trash talk after the big nfl playoff game sunday night. >> i'm the best corner in the game. when you try me with a sorry receiver like crabtree, that's the result you going to get. don't you ever talk about me. >> who was talking about you? >> crabtree. don't you open your mouth about the best. or i'm going to shut it for you real quick. >> now there's trash talking on wall street as well. netflix ceo reed hastings responding to a question about his rival ceo from hbo, saying it's okay for customers to share accounts. >> so i guess the ceo of hbo doesn't mind me then sharing his account information. so it's pleple@hbo.com, and his password is -- >> wasn't even sure if we can air that. it's not the first skirmish between the two companies. in 2010, time warner's ceo had this to say about netflix.

quote, it's a little bit like is the albanian army going to take over the world? i don't think so. wow. it's just the latest example in a new trend of ceo trash talk. we have to ask my guest here why we're seeing more and more of this, or are we? zachary? >> i mean this in no disrespect to albania. if you execute really well, you have some degree of right to be a little peeved when your results are as good as netflix. >> in other words f you', if yo going to throw a fireball, you have to be able to take it. >> and we shouldn't take these things overly serious. he's having a little fun, and he's a human being. for god's sake, he should be able to. the fact is they are executing well. >> are you talking about richard sherman or -- >> no, that's a whole other conversation. >> it's an example of hubris, to some extent. when ceos get so confident they're willing to kind of joke about it, the way you might say about someone on the field.

does that not indicate they're getting over confident? >> i'd say in both cases, sherman and hastings, i'd say it's because they've just got to that point where your blood is boiling. as you're about to deliver those earnings, i mean, that's as much pressure as these folks, men or women, are under, just like richard sherman in that final drive by san francisco when he, you know, makes that fabulous play. to have a microphone available to shove in somebody's face like erin andrews did, or reed hastings elects to do it, his blood is just up. >> his seem more calculated. >> i think usually there's more decorum in the suite. i think you tend to see it -- or the trash talking more among entrepreneurs. we all remember steve jobs st saying microsoft had no taste

all nothose years ago. to some extent, it's a little more acceptable. i would doubt someone in an established bank would say the same thing about a rival ceo. they would be taken down quickly. it would be considered inappropriate. >> what about this example? here's one who's a little in the middle, perhaps. this was just weeks ago at the consumer electronics show. it was t-mobile ceo saying this about rival at&t. quote, at&t is a total source of amusement for me. they are the ones that take my bs, dumb move, they take the bait. he also, john fort, as you know, on twitter, he endlessly bashes sprint. he's a guy who's constantly trash talking. what do you make of that? >> i think maybe there's a bit more trash talk in tech and related sectors. even tim cook, who you wouldn't mistake him for richard sherman,

he talks about the refrigerator toaster approach of others trying to make a pc into a tablet into a -- and so forth. steve jobs trash talked adobe and anything anybody else who came at him. and we have a history of folks who have done a lot of creative trash talking. >> whether it was tim cook or steve jobs, the comments about the tablet, for example, well, they did go from 90% market share to 50 or 60 in that space. maybe they shouldn't have been so sassy. >> look at the profits though. >> mary, what do you think? >> this is what i think. it's better to trash talk about a fellow ceo than about your customers, which is what we've heard from a couple of ceos lately at abercrombie & fitch. >> if it's a one-off thing, i'm still much more understanding of what is the company actually doing.

netflix has had the strangest history in that its stock has been up and down 200% in the last five, six years. he's faced a huge amount of skepticism about the viability of this model. so far he's proven to be able to do it. >> he used trash talking as a marketing theme, drew a ton of attention. these sort of antics over the years helped when they couldn't afford that kind of publicity. >> post-football football career for richard sherman, ceo trash talk consultant. >> thank you, guys. cnbc is celebrating its 25th anniversary with a challenge for you. cast your vote on who you think mattered the most in the business world over the last quarter century. it's all on our website, cnbc.com. up next, the latest hubbub over who didn't make the cut. there's a whole brouhaha on our hot list. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you:

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the modest first floor bedroom in tallinn, estonia and the southbound bus barreling down i-95. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪ welcome back. as part of cnbc's 25th anniversary, we're asking for your votes on the biggest business influencers of past quarter century. our website has been buzzing over who's not on the list of 200 people that will be chosen to make the top 25. allen wassler joins me now. what are some of the names people are upset about? >> there are a lot of them. a few stand-outs. number one, sam walton. this is interesting. of course, sam walton, he's a

giant in the retail business and everything. let me show you in the comments. one guy pointed out that sam walton has done more for the average consumer to empower poor people than all the bureaucrats of the last 25 years. kind of arghard to argue with t. the trick is, with sam walton, you know, he was sort of a few years beyond the 25 we're looking at, but he's casting a long shadow into recent times. now, here's another one like that. bill mcgowan. he's the one that created mci, the backbone of the internet and also the breakup of at&t. all that. but remember, he sort of had his hay day in the late '70s, early '80s, not really past 1989, which is our cut-off point. nevertheless, some people are making some very strong arguments. like this one. to leave him out of the list, it's like leaving einstein off a list of physicists. lots of debate going on in the

comments. now, here's another one a little more interesting. not so much the time thing we're talking about. peter lynch, legendary invester from fidelity investments. remember that? that's making a lot of us on the board go, hmm, maybe so. >> think about how many people read those books even. it's kind of like the wisdom that gets passed on to the next generation. >> he's the one who coined invest in what you know, something that's kind of hard to argue against. we also got flip side arguments. some people are really upset that we included some people on the list that they feel should be left off all the time. that's our villain type of thing. we've got dennis koslowski, ken lay, kind of remembered more for what got them in trouble than for the kind of things they did in their industries that actually affected the sectors they were in. >> well, as you know, this goes back to the debate over bernie madoff. wasn't that there was anything necessarily tra

necessari necessarily transformational about a ponzi scheme. >> one comment said we should leave all the crooks off, keep it clean. anyway, go into the comments and cast your votes. it's really interesting. get involved in the debate. >> yeah, great stuff. allen, thank you, sir. >> sure thing. >> do you agree that they're not deserving? >> i wouldn't put them on the list. someone else i wouldn't have on the list, actually when we were frenching peter lynch, they had ned johnson, the chairman of fidelity. abby johnson is his daughter. i would argue ned johnson was transformative in the mutual fund industry. his daughter, who's been at the helm for a while, has not been as transformative. mr. johnson and his father were the ones, i believe. >> it's fascinating. interesting exercise to go look through the list and see if you didn't know what they were doing, would you be able to pick

them out? there were some i didn't know, frankly. >> i think those figures, while they attracted a lot of attention, it's not clear how they fundamentally shaped or changed anything. >> income inequality is expected to be a focal point of president obama's state of the union address next week. cnbc contributor carol roth putting it out there why she thinks income inequality is not a problem. our john fort and a few others taking issue with that on twitter today. the two of them having at it already, but we'll move this to the tv screen next. tweet us your thoughts on the matter. is income inequality a bad thing? @cnbcclosingbell is the handle. your thoughts on air at the end of the show. and this quick programming note. catch becky quick's interviews with bank of america ceo brian moynihan and bono tomorrow on "squawk box" on cnbc. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. some breaking news out of the matthew martoma trial. kate? >> kelly, thanks so much. we're on multiple days here of testimony from a key witness

named sidney gilman, who has acknowledged passing nonpublic information on to the defendant in u.s. versus martoma. in cross examination with cros martoma, the defendant's lawyer, said something powerful a few minutes ago. he was being canned asked about his first confrontation with the fbi in 2011. and he said there was a conversation between himself and the fbi about who was a target. and he essentially said, mr. martoma, was only a grain of sand. we're really after a man named steven a. cohen. this is confirming what has beenment suspected that the government, the fbi, was after steven cohen, the founder of s.a.c., not the traders that that work for him that have since been taken to trial. >> made all the more clear, kate. thanks very much. one hot-button issue that's sweeping the web, income inequality.

it's going to be a part of the state of the union address next week. carol roth explaining today why income inequality is not a problem. it got the attention of jon fortt. he and carol duking it out all day on twitter. we have carol on the program, along with jon and the rest of the panel. did you change your mind? >> what do you think, kelly? >> what's your basic argument? why isn't income inequality a problem? >> i think there are a lot of issues. but it boils down to this. it makes the argument that there is one pie. and somehow, if you have a slice of pie and want to get more of it, it needs to come at the expense of someone else. and in america, that is blatantly untrue. our economy grows by growing the pie. and everyone can do better by having that expanding pie. one of the examples i used in my article was mark zuckerberg. him becoming a billionaire by starting facebook actually helped out a lot of people. he left a job open when he

didn't take one somewhere else. he started a company that employed a bunch of people. him creating this massive wealth is not at the expense of anyone else, other than the winklevoss twins. >> jon fortt, what's a problem with that? >> there's a study out income inequality and its affects on society. a couple of points are important. the silver spoon effect is growing. if you're born to wealthy parents, you're more likely to end up wealthy. just kind of naturally. also, the cost of college, room and board to a four-year university in 2013 dollars, has more than double d over the pas 20 years. we're finding it difficult for talented, able people to rise up through the ranks, that's a problem. the study also says that the percentage of people who rise from the lowest 20% to the highest 20% is largely stable. but it doesn't account for the people -- >> so, what you're -- hang on,

carol. what you're saying is income inequality is a problem. and it's a problem because there's no longer the same kind of mobility or opportunity that there's been in the past? >> there is still the same level of minimal mobility between the bottom fifth and the top fifth. but the problem is, some of the mechanisms in society, education, primarily, that make it possible to move up, are getting less accessible to the people in the lower rungs. i think that's bad for the country, in general. and part of the reason why that's happening is that universities are trying to court the higher-end students. trying to make it more comfortable. >> zach what were you going to say? >> i happen to be more on the side -- this is an issue. purely on the education thing, jon. the dollar cost for students have gone up. the cost of students pay has not because colleges themselves are rebating more of the top-line cost. a lot of college administrators will say, the rate of college tuition increase has been huge. the amount that students

actually pay out of pocket has not gone up. >> just the cost of being in college for four years, forget about the tuition. i know people who are spending their student loans just on that. >> i think one of the real issues is not -- there's a gloss on the past that inequality was less then and more now. part of the problem and i'd like to hear what you say about this. is more people no longer believe that this system is one in which they can, in fact, bridge that gap. and that belief, even if it was less correct then, is a very important ingredients in giving people the hope that you can do that. >> carol? >> i think the issue is the discussion of the inequality piece. i think inequality and prosperity and education are huge issues. but that doesn't come at the expense of one group or because one group was doing better. if we were all equal, i think they have a case study out of north korea that that doesn't work particularly well. i think we want to instill the hope. but it is not something that

needs to come from government redistributing wealth and trying to make everybody equal. the private sector coming together with the public sector. create more opportunities. create more education, and skills, so the people at the bottom can do better. but that's not at the expense of the other group. it's not about inequality. it's about focusing on the people that need the help. >> carol, thank you for joining us. people who are voting for the top 25, can meanwhile share their thoughts on her piece on cnbc.com. send ugh your tweets at cn twe. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy.

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welcome back. the debate still going, is income inequality a problem? we ask, you tweeted and here's some of your thoughts. mike tweets, income inequality problem or is not? let me check my bank account. it is a problem. income inequality is not a problem. but living conditions inequality is a problem. thinks income inequality isn't a problem. i bet she wouldn't mind trading incomes. how is $14,000 a year sound?

and chris tweets, income inequality is not an issue. the ability to achieve the american dream has not changed. dream big. work hard. we love these stories. and the great thing about this country is there are hollywood movies about people that have dreamt big, worked hard and can be an example to the rest of us. i wonder if it's really about those people or most of the others who feel they're doing the same thing in their everyday jobs and not seeing the benefits. >> we see it in the example of mark zuckerberg and bill gates. they dropped out of college. they built billion-dollar companies. one of the problems, i think, is when you have college tuition, if we start with something like that as an issue, being so expensive. being almost as expensive as an average family's income for the year. when the kids are younger, they're going to be discouraged from an early age in pursuing something bigger because the parents will say we can't afford it. >> i will say, there's free education in a lot of parts of the world. for college education, in the

middle east and europe, they don't have that much better of a structure when it comes to income inequality as a result. we need to keep talking about it. thank you so much for joining me today. there's so much going on. "fast money" coming up in a few seconds. melissa lee, what's on tap? >> we're tackling the sell-off heard around the world. in particular, we're also going to take a look at the argentine peso. it was up 17% today. one of the traders think it's a huge red flag when it comes to the oil market. >> we're eager to hear what's going on there. >> "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site in new york city's times square. our traders are steven p. grasso, brian kelly, karen and guy adami. and microsoft and starbucks holding their conference calls this hour, after reporting enearnings just hours ago. we'll bring you those details as we get them. we hav